This “funnel” has holes — marketing, metaphors, and consent (with Cleoniki Kesidis)

In this episode, Nicole welcomes back her very first repeat guest (🥳), Cleoniki Kesidis, copywriter extraordinaire and fellow funnel-skeptic. The two dig into the uncomfortable origins and metaphors behind the word funnel, asking why such a common marketing term so often feels…well, kinda icky. What starts as a conversation about email sequences and sales paths becomes a beautifully winding journey into ethical marketing, customer autonomy, and a whole lot of metaphors. Let’s talk about the words we use in the marketing systems we build. In this episode, you’ll discover… Why “funnel” might not be the best metaphor—and a few alternates What cows, tornadoes, and Temple Grandin have to do with marketing The overlooked power of sequencing and why your audience deserves an exit Why the best funnels feel more like ecosystems (and how to start designing yours) What to do if you find yourself IN a funnel as a business owner (which you will, like, all the time) A few quotes: “It doesn’t feel like a friendly place to exist. It’s like you’re Dorothy and your house has been picked up and you’re being tossed around inside a tornado.” “You want the sand to leave. You’re not trying to catch everybody.” “When we talk about optimizing, it’s not about making every number as high as it can go.” “When you’re an entrepreneur, you are always in a funnel.” Connect with Cleo: Grab Cleo's free resource: Everything You Need to Sell Your Evergreen Course Consistently at cekcopywriting.com LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/cleonikikesidis (she’s so good here) Curious about ethical sales and lead magnets that don’t feel gross? Check out Nicole’s newsletter for prompts and ideas: nicolecopy.com/prompts